click here to learn more

Saturday, June 13, 2009

You Want Proof? I'll GIVE You Proof!

Once again, the fires of discord are raging on math-teach@mathforum.org. One of the threads I've been embroiled in revolves on several axes: one is about teaching pure mathematics in K-12. Another is about visual proofs. The one I wish to specifically deal with here is the one that links the two: what comprises the nature of proof in elementary school mathematics classrooms and how do we get students in those grades to develop their notions of what a mathematical proof actually is?

The problems in having this sort of conversation in a hostile forum like math-teach are legion. One problem is that only a few of the participants are K-12 teachers, and fewer still are K-5 teachers or spend time working with elementary students and/or their teachers. Another is the long history of enmity from the Math Wars that tends to inform most conversations there. Fortunately, the one I'm going to pull from is not being polluted by the more egregiously nasty sorts of name-calling (due in no small part to the absence of two of the more troll-like participants from that list when it comes to progressive math education, as well as a sort of detente' that I was able to reach off-list with the person to whose ideas and arguments you'll see me replying below. It isn't quite all milk and honey, but it at least doesn't reek with epithets. I take what I can get these days, as I try to moderate my own propensities for vitriol. It's a long, hard slog, and I am fallible.

For background, things had reached a point where I was arguing for letting kids develop their own ideas of proof, and Paul A. Tanner, III made the following post:

I mean it could be made available as part of the mix in the same way that things you like could be made available, like the lattice method. (You want the lattice method made available, right? You don't want it left to chance as to whether they have the opportunity to see it, right?) It could be taught to them as part of the main course or
as a supplement. It could be in some sort of enrichment context, as something to be learned at the end of a guided method or as something to be learned in a direct teaching context. It could also be in written form, in which case they could study it if and when they wished, consulting with others outside the class or with their teacher.



Here is my reply, which touches, I believe, on several really central themes for the direction effective, student-centered mathematics education must go:

Paul, you have a unfortunate propensity for mixing up issues in ways that seem to come from your drive to win arguments rather than understand what others are saying. It's not a helpful habit and really makes discourse more difficult.

We were talking about notions of proof and whether formal proofs need be introduced earlier in K-12 and if so in what manner.

I raised the suggestion that for younger children, it would benefit them more to promote conversations amongst them about what constitutes proof and to help that notion grow OVER TIME (as in, over the course of years, not weeks or months). And I expressed concern that it would be difficult for some adults to resist pushing their more sophisticated notions on kids rather than trust that they will, if nurtured intellectually, move towards more mature and precise notions of what comprises proof, and eventually will start to see a need to know and understand what the mathematics community at large considers to be proof (and as you see, there is not exactly universal agreement about what that is: note the on-going debate here about visual proofs, for instance).

You then switch, as you all-too-often do, to algorithms, specifically so you can "trap" me with the example of lattice multiplication. But your move is flawed. Here's why. First, if you recall, I am inclined to agree with the work of Kamii, among others, who suggest that one of the big errors we make is to PREMATURELY introduce formal algorithms for arithmetic to kids. Please note: that's ANY formal algorithm, which would include the standard multiplication algorithm, the Russian Peasant algorithm, lattice multiplication, partial products, area models, et al.

And before you jump on the word "prematurely," which you have done erroneously in the past, this is NOT an issue of developmental "readiness." Rather it's a concern about crushing students' confidence in and reliance upon their OWN ideas before they've had a chance to test them and compare them with those of their peers. Adults need not be so bloody worried that the kids will get everything wrong and be irreparably harmed. Using traditional teaching methods and algorithms, teachers are ALREADY eliciting student misconceptions and errors.

So what's the rush? Can't wait to see if the kids can, by interacting with peers in guided conversations by a knowledgeable teacher, find their own way and correct misconceptions? If not, why not? Where is the evidence that this method would be WORSE than what we've done for decade upon decade? Lots of kids get mired in buggy algorithms as it is. I see the evidence all the time. A much smaller percentage of kids seem to blow it when they use lattice multiplication than the traditional algorithm because they don't wind up with misaligned partial products and they don't forget to carry out all the necessary multiplications. They can, of course, still do one digit multiplications wrong, and they can still add wrong, and they can still forget to carry. So this isn't foolproof. But the incredible number of the other two kinds of errors I mention simply don't occur with this method. And yet, the forces of anti-reform refuse to look at this, refuse to consider that it not only might this true, but that it makes perfect sense that it should be true. Given that sort of rigid thinking, can we seriously expect that such people are going to trust kids to use their own algorithms, test those algorithms against problems and against those of their peers, and choose reasonably which one(s) they prefer to use? Clearly, that isn't a possibility for educational conservatives.

Getting back to that word 'prematurely" again, the issue isn't development, as I said. It's letting kids develop their sense of what works well for them, and that they can figure this out, and that they can develop, test, and refine their own ideas about mathematics. There's lots of time to then introduce, if necessary, any algorithms that we might feel kids need to see that haven't arisen. Later.

But as I wrote in my previous post, what tends to happen is that either nothing but the traditional algorithm is taught, or when it is taught it's given explicit or implicit pride of place. And this occurs so early, in lower elementary, that what I discuss about about kids' creativity, self-confidence, and judgment about what works is crushed or suppressed. And we wind up with what? Passive kids who wait for Teacher to tell them everything. Who don't take risks. Who don't think except along the narrowest possible lines. All this well entrenched, from what I've seen, by third grade. It's a tragedy.

So, getting back to PROOF: the same rush to formalism and tradition is equally ill-founded. Let kids develop their own standards and ideas about what comprises proof in general and mathematical proof in particular over the elementary grades. Guide them towards more sophisticated notions, and by the time they've gained enough mathematical maturity, they'll want to know what professional mathematicians (about whom they might actually be allowed to learn something) consider to be proof. It may not happen in K-5. Or maybe it will. But it will happen. If we trust kids' curiosity and the ability of wise teachers not to shove things down their throats at the first sign that the students aren't doing things "by the book."

Do I trust YOU, Paul, and those who think like you, to show this wisdom and patience? I do not. I have seen ample evidence of how the majority of even elementary school teachers think and work when it comes to traditional vs. other algorithms to believe that it would be any different with notions of proof. The drive that is grounded in mistrust of kids is so strong that I had a third grade teacher tell me in 2005 that she doesn't explore student errors with students in class because "the other kids will fixate on the errors and then I can't extinguish them." I wondered why they ostensibly don't fixate on the correct solutions and methods: only the wrong ones they hear. Why would it not be useful to discuss the errors, where they come from, and try to reveal why they are grounded in things that don't correspond to what kids already know to be true from experience inside AND outside of school when it comes to math. But apparently it's just too dangerous to talk about those errors. Just say, "No, dear. You do it like this."

It's the adults, not the kids, who have problems. The kids will be fine if we let them. They are not morons, but we make them into empty-headed robots in short order with our insistence upon spoon-feeding them when they're perfectly capable of a great deal of self-nurturance. All we need do is provide a safe, rich environment and keep our eyes and ears open and, much of the time, our mouths SHUT. But few of us can do any of that: as Bob Kaplan told me in Chicago in 2003, it's easy to find teachers for the Math Circle who know the mathematics. The problem is finding teachers who know how and when to keep their mouths shut.

I know you will continue to try to lawyer this into something that allows you to shove things down kids' throats that you don't trust them to want to know later. And here's the part you miss: I don't insist that any particular algorithm MUST be taught. What I want is going to happen if we let kids breathe and think. When they want to see more methods, they'll let you know. When they become discontented with their ideas of proof, they'll let you know. And it WILL happen. Because there will always be kids who ask themselves and their peers: "Why does that work? Why does that make sense? How do you know?" And that's all we need to nurture in them: their own natural curiosity, rather than suppress that and replace it with curiosity about only the following: What does the teacher think? What does the teacher want me to say or do? What do I need to do to get an A?

13 comments:

John said...

I think it's sad that reasoning is often unexamined as a process until formal proof is introduced in geometry in HS. The majority of my college students think "show my work" when they hear "share your reasoning."

I use two frameworks relevant to reasoning, inspired by the NCTM and developed with colleagues at GVSU.

Reasoning Process(K-8)
1) Making Sense
2) Making Conjectures
3) Making Arguments

Reasoning Forms (really Van Hiele)
Understanding of meaning (interpreting representation)
Reasons for belief (why is it true or reasonable)
Informal argument (connected reasons)
Formal Proof (connected reasons without gaps)
Axiomatic (connected reasons without gaps aware of assumptions)

Then the important question: how do you teach how to reason?

Delta Tau said...

MPG wrote:
"What does the teacher think? What does the teacher want me to say or do? What do I need to do to get an A?"

As long as there's grading, students will ask these questions.

It seems a bit disingenuous to act as if that happens because of direct instruction; what about the simple fact that students get grades and that grading is usually entirely up to the teacher?

So what would students have to do or say in YOUR class in order to get an A?

Michael Paul Goldenberg said...

DT: I'm talking about an atmosphere of teacher-centered, rather than student-centered instruction that goes well beyond the simplistic issue of direct instruction vs. everything else. I'm also speaking very specifically to issues about learning mathematics and related ideas in LOWER elementary school. What would a student need to earn an A in my Kindergarten, 1st, or 2nd grade classroom? Not a thing. I wouldn't be giving out such silly things. And in that regard, even many public schools have caught on.

The problem is, of course, deeper than grades, but grades DO become the entire focus for many kids. And the groundwork is established when we kill kids' natural curiosity (if that hasn't already been done when they come to school to begin with) by teaching them that what they think doesn't matter.

The question isn't direct instruction. It's ALL direct instruction, all the time. And it's direct instruction too early about things students need to think about themselves first, so that the responsibility for thought it taken from the kids and given entirely to the teacher and/or (later) the textbook.

Of course, your "simple fact" about grades need not be the case. There are many alternatives to what you've described. Perhaps I've succeeded in indirectly making a case for such options to be on the table for serious consideration.

I suspect, however, that none of the above will connect if you're married to the direct instruction uber alles school of teaching. I use direct instruction, among many other pedagogical methods. I just don't let it become all or even most of what I do. Unfortunately, I generally teach upper grades and community college or college, where the grade game coupled with passivity is already deeply entrenched. Experimenting with self-grading in education classes at several colleges where this isn't generally done proved unsatisfactory, but very instructive. For me, if not the students. :^)

Sue VanHattum said...

"Experimenting with self-grading in education classes at several colleges where this isn't generally done proved unsatisfactory, but very instructive. For me, if not the students. :^)"

I'd love to hear more detail about this. I tried it once, because I hate having the "power over" that grading gives me. It was unsuccessful for me, too.

Delta Tau said...

You wrote about developing the notion of proof and inventing multiplication algorithms -- both topics that remain relevant beyond the 2nd grade. So the question -- what do students have to do in your class to get an A -- remains.

BTW, do you know of any foundational reform document or non-obscure reform textbook (teacher edition) that clearly states that some "traditional" tasks should be graded while some "reform" tasks should NOT be graded?

Most so-called "traditional" tasks -- learning the multiplication table, mastering standard pen-and-pencil algorithms, even solving typical word problems -- can be graded fairly objectively. That is one aspect many students like about math (they can do well without trying to read the teacher's mind or get on his good side -- assuming the teacher is not overly incompetent).

Grading many so-called "reform" tasks -- developing mathematical notions and concepts, inventing algorithms, recognizing patterns, collaborating in small groups -- tends to be a lot more subjective and involves aspects that are not strictly mathematical.

I nearly never lecture at all (though I require students to read textbooks and scripts). I use much of my class time for tasks that are quite close to what reformers promote. These tasks are useful, but I do not need to grade them and for some tasks participation is optional: students can and occasionally do decline. Indeed, if some of these tasks were viewed as useless by most students, I would have to cease using them due to lack of interest.

No grading -- no threat of punishment for failure -- is necessary for these tasks to work.

U.S. reformers seem very confident that their reform tasks will engage students -- and when well done many such tasks should -- yet unwilling to do so without grading.

So for example collaboration (and de facto student tutoring) ends up being enforced by group grades, no matter how unfair the results may be or how corrosive it can be for the atmosphere in the class. Reformers do not seem to care.

Do you know any influential reformers who have spoken out clearly and loudly against group grading? I hope there are some, but I do not recall any off hand.

And do you know of any studies that ask students in reform classes if they view grading as exceedingly subjective or if they object to group grades or if the best students mind being forced to tutor other students? It seems no reformers care to hear what the answers may be.

When early on people complained about reform testing that relies too heavily on language skills and social contexts, they were largely ignored. A decade later Jo Boaler does the same -- because she's unhappy about her "reform" students scoring poorly on the SAT-9 test.

Well-chosen social context can be a good motivating factor, and teachers in all subjects should strive to improve language skills of their students. Yet none of this needs to be directly graded in math classes or on standardized math tests.

You seem to have a black-and-white vision that tends to reduce everything to a reform vs traditional struggle. There's a lot out there in math education that does not fit such simplistic world view.

Michael Paul Goldenberg said...

DT: Yes, I'm very simple-minded. And I see everything as black-and-white. That's evident from this blog and the overall body of what I've written. So it's absurd of you to expect me to provide you with answers to your questions. I can't see any gradations, only good guys and bad guys. You need to seek elsewhere for someone capable of subtlety.

Michael Paul Goldenberg said...

Sue,

My experiments with self-grading were very poorly conceived and executed on my part, so their failure was predictable given the folks involved.

I had the (mis-)fortune of attending a college with no grades. It gave me the ridiculous idea that people could be motivated to do challenging work in any field because they wanted to, rather than in order to earn gold stars. At times, of course, it helped that I had some professors who knew how to motivate me to go beyond whatever I'd explicitly contracted to do at the beginning of a semester, thus pushing me to push myself towards even more gratifying accomplishments (like writing a long paper towards the end of an independent study on John Barth that pulled together everything I'd done up until that point, despite the fact that no such summarizing paper had been required or agreed to at the start of the semester).

I probably should have guessed, moreover, that students in a teacher education program in a traditional university (and I did this with elementary ed students in one college and secondary ed students in another) would not know how to do self-evaluation in a meaningful way, nor would they be motivated to push themselves without the obvious gold stars that only TEACHER could award. The fact that they could start knowing that they would have an A in the course if that's what they truly believed they deserved and had earned didn't free them to take more risks or to criticize themselves more insightfully.

It's the lack of meaningful reflection that really bothered me, but then, I blame myself entirely. I was lazy and got back lazy results. I needed to make HOW to do this sort of course work and self-evaluation the center of the first few weeks of the class, just as today I would scaffold in a mathematics class at any grade level how to work effectively in groups, pairs, etc., or any other skill that I no longer presume students bring to the dance.

Thus, I don't think what I did is a black mark against self-assessment, but rather again my lack of planning and execution. I think John's comments at the beginning of what he wrote here are on point: the majority of students don't understand what it means to "share your reasoning" in ANY context, not merely in solving math problems. I was taught how to do that much, much earlier than college. I see kids who have been trained to explain their thinking doing so on state tests I grade EVEN WHEN THE PROBLEM DOES NOT CALL FOR THEM TO DO SO. It's interesting to see how that particular habit of mind can really take root and blossom if somehow the teacher is able to get it across to kids in early grades. (These tests come from kids in grades 3 - 8). But without that sort of scaffolding, it's all likely to be a huge waste of time.

I also know from my college days that some folks are always (or for a very long time, at least) going to be cynical about assessment, whether that comes from themselves of from Teacher or even from peers. One reason I wanted to have the ed students do self-assessment was that I hoped they would find that easier than doing observation and assessment of peers. Ultimately, both sorts of reflection and assessment of practice are, I believe, crucial for effective teaching. But college kids don't want to speak honestly about each other's weaknesses. I had hoped, however, that by removing the fear of how *I* would grade them that they could at least be honest about themselves. I forgot, however, that there was something huge missing: the ability to actually SEE themselves or anyone else through a critical lens. That, too, must be taught.

Robert Talbert said...

I'm quite interested in this topic since I have three kids ages 5.5, 3.5, and 0.5 -- and they are all learning how to "reason" right now in very different ways. How do I teach them to do it well? I can't give grades out, obviously, or flunk them out of the family. I fully agree with Michael's idea of letting kids' conception of proof (and reasoning in general) start among themselves and then develop over time. I would argue that this process needs to start MUCH earlier than elementary school, though -- preferably in the home, among parents who make a serious investment in teaching their kids reasoning skills through the everyday real-life teaching moments that are always popping up around the house.

But I do think also that, for very young kids, external motivation is needed, if with a light touch. That comes in the form of parental approval, starting with facial cues and vocal tones for babies (like my 0.5-year old who is learning how to crawl) and continuing through the parent giving guidance through gentle "no's" and hearty "yesses" when kids try reasoning out.

Sue VanHattum said...

Robert, I think it's fine to indicate approval/disapproval when it comes to kids' behavior. But the less their reasoning is tied to that, the better.

The more you treat their opinions with respect, and question them about the details in the same way you would a peer, the better for their reasoning skills.

Tumane said...

John my friend i total disagree with you why is because from primary when the teacher teach in class ask questions during the presentation so what you saying is not true for example they are learners who are not doing geometry at high so meaning they can't reason according to you

AEPA study said...

The trust and the proof both are the opposite terms.If you trust someone you need not to a proof and if you need proof means you don't trust him.

Character Education Programs said...

well where the human psychology works there are two parts of life one material, where you want the proof and then you go for the trust, second the religious where the trust comes first and proof comes after the death! Hope you guys got it

Michael Paul Goldenberg said...

Hmm. Looks like my blog is threatened with hijacking from outer space. . . That's what I get for going on an extended hiatus. Well, never fear: I should be back posting fresh material shortly. Now, if the religious members of the audience will excuse me, I have an appointment back on Planet Earth.